Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton

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Originally by: Rian O'Shea

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This change does not in any way affect our attribute remap, does it?

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will put your max stat at 32 (15+12+5) instead of 33 (15+10+5)*1.1, and your secondary stat should be 26 (9+12+5) instead of 26.4 (9+10+5)*1.1

so I guess not "awesome" but I'm not really all that annoyed by it, I mean we used to not even be able to remap.

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Originally by: RM Odrade

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How long will we have to redistribute the SP? I am still saving up for all of the books needed to get into a carrier and even though 5.7M SP isn't a WHOLE lot, it's gonna be a nice start down that training path.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Before the change, you had a max of (39 base + 25 basics + 25 advanceds + 25 implants)*1.1 learning = 125.4 max total.

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Originally by: Red lensman

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attribute booster's are getting a nerf as they used to get effected by the learning lv5 skill so a +4 implant used to give a +4.4 boost. so all implants should really given
a 10% boost to make up for the loss of the skill, or give 10 pounts and leave the lv5 learning skill boost running

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Originally by: Jade Mandukar

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So what about those that are selling and buying characters?

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Originally by: I'thari

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: Red lensman

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attribute booster's are getting a nerf as they used to get effected by the learning lv5 skill so a +4 implant used to give a +4.4 boost. so all implants should really given
a 10% boost to make up for the loss of the skill, or give 10 pounts and leave the lv5 learning skill boost running

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You want to train EVEN faster? You'll be training faster anyway, unless you've had +10 from skills.

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Yes, because now I'll train as if I'd have 5/4 skills instead, I didn't learn those skills to ratin slower, you know... and while it's some 2-3% drop - there are skills that give you same 2% advantage and take weeks, still people train them. What if CCP decided to nerf some autocanon specialization 5 same way?

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Originally by: Rick Rothsar

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Someone said they're losing 640k SP training per year under the new plan.

640k SP / 5m SP reimbursement (recovered SP previously tied up in learning skills) = 7.8 YEARS before you actually lose SP over what your current SP pace.

I certainly hope you're not butthurt over how much SP your character is going to be losing starting in September of 2018.

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Originally by: Rivqua

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Question. I currently still have 50-100K SP in my redistribution pool. Am I safe keeping them there, and if I get 2M extra from my learning sp, I will end up with 2.1M, or will you just set the redist pool to == learning, meaning, there is a risk of loosing some of the current redist SP ?

- Riv

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Originally by: Mr LaForge

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I don't know why everyone is saying you'll have 5.3m Skillpoints to distribute.

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Originally by: Breaker77

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Just to clarify. The SP reimbursement will happen for inactive accounts as well and the SP will still be there if the account is reactivated in the future?

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Originally by: Judas Scammer

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Edited by: Judas Scammer on 25/11/2010 14:01:01
ATTENTION WHINERS:

If you lose 72sp/h but you will gain 6M sp.
6 000 000/72 ? How many hours would that be?

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Originally by: synesthetics

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QUESTION FOR CCP:

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Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker

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My old char have my love stats (+5 imps, perfect learn's)

Redrick
Int1027,50
per1027,50
char319,80
will623,10
mem1027,50
summ:125,40

Redrick_after14
Int10 27,00
per10 27,00
char3 20,00
will6 23,00
mem10 27,00
summ:124,00
I am do not need to booooost Charisma, I AM ACHURA! DO NOT TACH ME!

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Redrick fixed for ya
Int2227
per2227
char1520
will1823
mem2227
summ:124

Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Edited by: Tonto Auri on 25/11/2010 14:11:42

Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker

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My old char have my love stats (+5 imps, perfect learn's)

Redrick
Int1027,50
per1027,50
char319,80
will623,10
mem1027,50
summ:125,40

Redrick_after14
Int10 27,00
per10 27,00
char3 20,00
will6 23,00
mem10 27,00
summ:124,00
I am do not need to booooost Charisma, I AM ACHURA! DO NOT TACH ME!

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Redrick fixed for ya
Int2227
per2227
char1520
will1823
mem2227
summ:124

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(base_attribute+10 from learn+5 from imps)*1.1
noob

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Originally by: Einear Lightfingers

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WOW! Way to screw the pooch. Anyone remember Star Wars Galaxies when they converted all the potential characters had to 8 simple templates? This is the same idea. Dumb the game down to keep the noob kid base happy at the expense of the players who worked to understand the game. Like a lot of people I spent the 3 months training those extra skills to 5 to have the advantage over my pirate friends who spent the time grinding weapon skills and ****d me every time I stepped in the wrong system. Now those same people want the same advantage of the person who spent the time to train it and still keep their pew pew.

Thank you CCP for becoming more like Star Wars Galaxies daily. First with the patch for more broken crap and now with taking one of the better parts of the games ability to create individuals away so PVPer can have their guns and all the skills they want to. I'll wait until next year see how this all works out, but this will more than likely be the end of my 4 year run in EVE.

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Originally by: Anubus53

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Not sure if this has been covered in the 11 pages of comments yet but, what will happen to the remapping system and our current remaps? I've got 29perc/25will atm (+4's), will those remain the same or how will they it change?

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Originally by: Mag's

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Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:20:27

Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will impliment.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.

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Originally by: Einear Lightfingers

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Quote:

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You missing the point.
More noobs in space = more targets = more joy.

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Exactly more pew pew pew for you a the expense of the folks who are not in to pew pew pew. Might as well just give you all the admin password to the servers so you can disconnect everyone for your fleet ops.

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Originally by: Rellik Sadab

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How will the 12 points be distributed?

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Originally by: RedrickShoohart Joker

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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You placed extra +12 points into implants instead of attributes. I fixed that for ya.
Now, I await your apology.

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One More Time

before (now)
(base_attribute + 10 from learning 5/5 + 5 from (+5) imp) x1.1 (Learning)
For Int=10 -> 27.50 points
For char=3 -> 19.80 points

after 14
(base_attribute + 12 + 5 from (+5) imp)

For Int=10 -> 27.00
For char=3 -> 20.00

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: Mag's

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Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will implement.

Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.

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It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.

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I did read it, it doesn't answer my question.

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Originally by: Dev blog

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All new and existing characters will have an extra 12 base points (ie, non-remappable) in each attribute.

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Originally by: Lord Midnight

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So I am confused.

We are getting 12 points per attribute to replace all learning skill points?

Are implants staying in game?

My alt has maximum learning skills (to the tune of 20-odd mil SP). Do I get all that SP to redistribute after the change? (If I dont there shall be much capslock).

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Originally by: Thorleifer

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so are we getting a remap or not? it is a simple question, I think it is only fair to give us a free remap.

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Originally by: Damien Smith

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Hi, I've got a quick couple of questions.

If you have an alt on the same account as your main who has no use for their skillpoint pool, can you petition for those SP to be moved to your main char?

Also, when this change goes live will you be resetting the remap timer so people can adjust their long term training goals to take into account these changes?

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Originally by: Cresalle

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Quote:

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Also, recycling alts is against the rules and will get you banned.

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What constitutes 'recycling alts' and where is this rule stated?

Seriously, is there a list of these bizzare rules somewhere? I keep hearing people mention things but how the hell am I supposed to know what's hearsay and what's a real rule?

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Originally by: Resource Extractor

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Originally by: CCP Navigator

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Originally by: Damien Smith

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(...)

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The skill points are reimbursed on a per character basis and they will not be transferred between accounts or characters.

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I find this rather strange in a way.
Only one character can gain SP at the same time (only one char trains) so actually the SP belongs more to the account than to the character. I find it not more than logical that the account-holder can decide on which characters the "freed up SP" can be re-used.

As said before, most people have "finished" chars on accounts, and really would like to invest that SP in their training character.

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Originally by: Othran

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Oh I do understand. Its simply a cost analysis of what works for the majority.

Your problem here is that the people affected are people who are not even medium-term subscribers. They may even be boxed-version customers. ie no sub signed up to.

I'd suggest you have a chat next time you sit down with the GMs and brief them to have a bit of leeway. The changes are superb for a new character, but not so great for one created in the last 4 weeks.

NB - for anyone wondering, none of my characters/accounts would be eligible.

No reply required Greyscale, thread is long enough.

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Originally by: T0Y

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If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

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Originally by: L0rdF1end

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Originally by: L0rdF1end

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Im confused.

If I have increased attributes through learning skills do I keep those attribute points gained when this comes into effect?

If I do, would it not make sense to train leanring skills as much as poissible keeping the attribute increase and gaining the SP back to spend elsewhere?

Have I missed somethng here?

Something doesn't feel right.

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Anyone able to answer my query?

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Originally by: aJackus

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1. Everybody's gonna train slower.
With these +12 atr/ I'll have 26 intel (instead of 26.4) and 32 mem. (33 now).
That's awsome.
2. Give everybody free remap.

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Originally by: Thorleifer

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Originally by: T0Y

---

If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

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It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

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Originally by: T0Y

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: T0Y

---

If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

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It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

---

So if you don't know the answer, why are you replying?

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Originally by: Thorleifer

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: Thorleifer

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Originally by: T0Y

---

If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

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It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

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True but that blog made no reference to older character at all. So clarification is asked for again.

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Originally by: T0Y

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: T0Y

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If my current remap is set to maximize mem/perc, does this change take that into account and leave me maxed in a similar way? Or does it just give me a flat 20/20/20/20/19 setup?

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It was strictly said in reference to NEW CHARACTERS... Read dev blog as it written, please.

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So if you don't know the answer, why are you replying?

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Just a few quotes up in thread
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1420510&page=15#424

(Means: u blind)

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Originally by: Bomberlocks

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CCP: I have a question about reimbursement.

How long will the reimbursement period last?

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Originally by: Lactasia

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Wouldn't this warrant a neural re-map for everyone? Some people have remapped for the learning skills!?

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Originally by: Rommah

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Me and my fiance better be reimbursed for our +5 implant sets! >:(
Also, I do hope we get a free skill remap!

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Originally by: Rex Rotham

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Assuming you maxed ALL learning skills, you'd have: 5,376,000 skillpoints in learning.

Now also assuming you always wear a full set of +5 implants and have a 15/9 attribute mapping, your effective training speed drops from 2772 to 2700, or a net loss of 72sp/hr.

Being given the 5.376m skillpoints to redistribute into other skills divided by the 72sp/hr you lose means it will take 74,666.667 hours before you effectively begin to actually feel the effects of your drop in SP/HR. That is the equivalent of 3,111 days (8 years, 188 days) 2 hours and 40 minutes.

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Originally by: Phaedriel

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Originally by: Versuvius Marii

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Sod off back to WoW, the lot of ya :P

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Don't need to, EVE is slowly turning into WoW with all this 'simplification'.

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Originally by: Schmacos tryne

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CCP!

I don't need a god dam mal`neutriciant smegging remap I WANT MY FUKKING GAMETIME BACK which I wasted training for this fukking chit flying around in nubb ships and doing nothing but pouring cash into your icelandic pockets. Do something about this matter or we ARE NOT COOL!

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Originally by: Reddx Panther

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Meh. The learning skills were a good thing.

Character customization is now heavily gimped - race and ancestry gone, learning skills gone - what's next?

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Originally by: Kara Khanate

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I didnt read all 22 pages of posts, but I was curious if CCP could reimburse the cost of skill books for people who have invested a significant amount of thier skills to learning. I currently have 80% of my total sp into learning and more than half of my earnings so far invested in the skills. This change has a significant financial impact on my character.

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Originally by: Tyme Xandr

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As I said shortly ago, they should remove Advanced SOCT learning first and give everyone +5 to attributes, which still rewards players who have been skilling learning, then after some time, if its truly necessary, remove the tier one skills.

This way those who spent time skilling their learning skills wont be as dusted.

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Originally by: Pottsey

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KurnKuku said "Come back and moan in 8 years when your reimbursed SP runs out."
It doesn't take 8 years, it takes until the new skills come out.

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Originally by: Schmacos tryne

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I got everything maxed yes and I am not talking about SP I am talking about the time it took to train it this way. I paid money to train skillz which is now wasted. I want reimbursement of SP AND reimbursement of time!

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Originally by: Alexx Luther

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So... wait.... i will be stuck with a max of (17+5) 23 as my highest possible attribute (w/o remappping of course) while newer players get 20x4 and 19... do they keep this attribute boost? because if they do then they can have a max of 25 (20+5) and will eventually overtake me in sp training faster then i.

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Originally by: Capsuleer Newton

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current base is 8/8/8/8/7; we can remap 3/3/3/3/2; +12 points = you'll have 17 across the board unremappable attribute but you still have the 3/3/3/3/2 = 14 points.

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Originally by: Skythunder Alexandria

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Comments such as this are just as short-sighted as the changes we are discussing. Here is why:

1) Most of us who trained the Learning tree, did so at an early age, when ISK and our investment of time were at a premium. We did not have a "main" and 3 alts to fund +5 implants to knock out the learning tree in a month and a half... we spent several weeks grinding enough ISK just to buy the damn skills, and then spent the better part of six months maxing the skills out (which I admit, I still have not taken Charisma to +10... I just can't justify the last 3 weeks it would take to get there)!

2) Now that we have "grown up", all we have left to invest those 4+mil SP into with the refunded points, are x5, x8, x12 skills. So essentially, I get 11 skills taken away, ang if I'm lucky, I might get to train 2 skills from lvl 4 to lvl 5... something that would take me a couple of months at the most, with the new attributes you will put in, plus my current set of implants.

So to dumb this thought down even further:

nOObS = rejoice!!!!!!!111

Veterans = bend over and take the big communist weenie where the sun don't shine!

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Originally by: Lahnius

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...so, basically EVE is being slowly tailored for those that usually find happiness in the daily statement:

"Look Mommy, I'm shooting stuff..."

...please, if your reply is "dont be stupid", or some long drawn out blast at my n00bisheticness, then just hush 'cuz flames fall on deaf ears...

...meh...

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Originally by: john roe

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what's next?

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Originally by: john roe

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beginning eve 2010 :

I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW!
GIVE ME! GIVE ME! GIVE ME!


fast-food generation.

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Originally by: Gartanus

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So if I understand this right, we will lose our learning skills. Mine are all at 5 now.

---

Quote:

---

But we will be getting back the isk we spent for said skills correct?

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Originally by: john roe

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Originally by: Tonto Auri

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Originally by: john roe

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beginning eve 2010 :

I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW!
GIVE ME! GIVE ME! GIVE ME!


fast-food generation.

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Where? I wanna be the first!!! Oh, it's was a joke? Shame on you... I though it was real...

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it's called a sarcasm, mate.
only pointed out which way this game is heading... what it's changing into.
into fast-food game.

anyway, dont bother with that, mate.
this whole concept is way too complicated for you, apparently.

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Originally by: john roe

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Originally by: Tonto Auri :

"EVE remains as enjoyable as it is"


then i want your version of this game because obviously we are playing 2 different types of eve. enjoyment in this game has ended (at least for me) around 2007.
i am here only to see how this game is gonna die.

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Originally by: Sub Prime

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Edited by: Sub Prime on 25/11/2010 20:05:52
The majority of ****tards don't seem to appreciate that refund of learning skills is provided in SP, not time. Therefore EVERYONE who has a clue will invest the SP in skills that:

a) Require attributes that they wouldn't ever remap for directly.
b) Enable you negate/delay a remap because you can spent the SP on those key skills.

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Originally by: Calenthia

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This leaves only the fourth group: people who have recently spent a lot of time investing in their learning skills instead of the "fun skills", and have yet to profit from the time spent learning these. Unfortunately, I am one of these people. I understand that we will get reimbursed for the skill points, but it still feels a bit sour in knowing that these past weeks could have been spent on other, more useful, skills. We will no longer have the joy of slowly catching up to the people who started earlier but never bothered spending points on the learning skills. All that money i just spent on skillbooks hurts a bit as well, but not as much as losing the long-term advantage of spending my skillpoints intelligently.

I applaud CCP for making a decision which benefits most of the playerbase though. I know I am in a serious minority compared to all you multiyear subscriber vets.

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Originally by: john roe

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yes, cause when YOU were born you could walk, run, dance and do all kind of stuff from day 1.

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Quote:

---

this particular change means nothing to me.

---

Quote:

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i dont care about ISK nor SPs (my chars have stopped around 100-120M. they got all they need). all i care is that eve is evolving into wrong direction.

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Quote:

---

simplyfing this game you are actualy killing it.

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Quote:

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eve-online was a parallel universe once.
was mysterious and epic.

---

Quote:

---

and cccp lost that magic at some point. making really bad dev. decisions.

---

Quote:

---

And they have raised their voices and proclaimed: "It's MAGIC!!"
"No, - he replied, - I just know how it's done..."

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Originally by: Brannor McThife

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Originally by: Tippia

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5 (base) +12 (compensation) +10 (max remap) +5 (implant).

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= 32.

I would like to know that the cap increase is going to happen. As I'm already at 30.6 or so on one stat...so adding more to the base would push me even further past the current cap.

Or am I wrong in my understanding about max stats?

Maybe everyone should get a free neural remap as well...

-G

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Originally by: Ark Ferroraider

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Yes, beginners will have an opportunity earlier to use the best ships and the equipment.

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Originally by: Daktariis*****

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All I'm saying is that people in those three categories should be given additional compensation by CCP.

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Originally by: Activa

---

The indepth character difference is an important factor in an MMO to set it apart from other MMO cause you're not the same as the other player with kind of the same attributes and only difference in gear.
CCP, this may backfire in the long run as it did with other MMO.

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Originally by: Logic Principle1

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So urmm, I may be at a bit of a loss here, but how do the whole slot 1-5 implants work now?..

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Originally by: Rupicolous

---

So we have trial accounts that can currently train for tier 1 BS

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Quote:

---

Skill at operating Caldari battleships. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts.

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Originally by: Uki Egdoca

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Originally by: Caldariftw123

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I don't see how people can think that they are 'losing isk spent on learning skills' ??? You paid for the skillbook, you get the attributes. Whether you got them from training, or through this (AWESOME) change, you still get them. Just because they're not "officially" learning skills now everyone has the effect of them in place, so if they paid that's fair.

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well, I have a 10mill sp character, just finished maxing out learning skills, thats 5,3mill. that means that in the time I have been training my learning skills, I have been "stuck" with my other half, 5mill sp, for about 5-6 months, over half my time playing eve. A time I could have spendt on lets say my drone and gunnery skills, getting more dps, finishing missions faster, and making more isk. So over the time I have been training learnig skills, you can see that I have "lost" more then just the isk on books.

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Originally by: the tracter

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your making the game so people or new players dont have to think.

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Originally by: Dinak Khnid

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My investment in training skills was just that. You've rendered that investment null and void.

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Originally by: Cyberus

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So what you are saying is that you never though about shall you train lerning skills to get advantage of training skills faster vs other players who deside to not do so? Make an choise?

---

Quote:

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Seems more like this skill was more like mandatory but still no one was forcing you to train those rigth?

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Originally by: Activa

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Quote:

---

Quote:

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Seems more like this skill was more like mandatory but still no one was forcing you to train those rigth?

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I didn't said it was mandatory. It was a choics that wasn't required a brain to produce.

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It isnt about a nobrainer, its about dedication, patience and choice.

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Originally by: Activa

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Quote:

---

Wat? Dedication to brainlessness? OMG, I didn't hough we would hit THIS wall...
(Also fail at quoting)

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Why you actually play then? The endless skilling is also a nobrainer

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Originally by: Lyrrashae

---

Now, pleasepleasepleaseplease* bring back the pre-Apocrypha character creation

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Originally by: This Suxbad

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ok this may have been answerd but I didn't want to go through 30+ pages and I saw some people beating on someone about it.
My question is can we be able to remap (if not currently able) after the change? And the reason would be that since I will be applying a large number of skill points to items I had planned to train then my skill plan may change and I would possibly want to re-map.
i.e. I will be whacking off (no jokes) about 50 days of my current 120 day plan.

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Originally by: Saxon

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First of all, why do the SP's dont just go to the acount

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Originally by: CA CAP

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THIS IS GREAT!!!

But i think .. we can now change the remap counter from 12 month to 6.!?!?!
We have 2 Extensions each per anno .. so we need 2 remaps per anno.

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